Do I Stay Or Leave?

Do I Stay Or Leave?  by Frederick C. Kubicek

     The topic of this study is really rather straight forward. Whenever a believer begins to understand what has become known variously as the Third Feast/Overcomer/42nd Generation message (s)he experiences two things. The first of these is great joy as they begin to realize the absolute beauty and majesty of God's plan for His sons/daughters. The second experience is sometimes filled with sorrow and distress, which is more often than not brought about by the rejection this believer experiences as (s)he attempts to share this revelation with other brothers and sisters in their home church. Perhaps it is because of this second situation that Eccl. 1:18 tells us that "...with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief."  

 The question now facing these young overcomers is:
      

How do we relate to those ministries which:

#1) Place so much emphasis upon their particular traditions as to give them a status equal to or even greater than the Bible. The net effect of which is to nullify Scripture when said Scripture contradicts their tradition.   

OR

#2) Do not acknowledge the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as being a work of God which is separate and distinct from one's initial salvation experience, and which represents the Holy Spirit's use of the gifts of the Spirit today as He did during the first Pentecost. 

OR 

#3) Do not understand or acknowledge that God is continuing to reveal His will through a greater understanding of His Word. That there are certain things which can only be accomplished by a group of believers who are totally and completely sold out to God in every aspect of their lives - spirit, soul & body. That just as God could only use a small portion of Gideon's original army and only allow the priests who were sons of Zadok to enter into His presence, so also is God going to raise up a group of believers today who will refuse to mix God's ways with man's ways when it comes to ministering first of all to Him, and then the love of God to a dying and hurting world.

      At various times and in various ways as our relationship with the Lord becomes deeper, we are faced with the issue of how we are to relate to those of our brothers and sisters in the Lord who appear to be making no effort to grow in their own personal relationship with God.  There is no question that we walk in love towards them, but are we to continue to seek fellowship and spiritual growth with them?  How do we do this when they are not interested in growing? What are some of the issues which may well serve as a sign post that it may indeed be necessary for us to seek a different 'home church?' 

  Do not make the mistake of thinking that anything that is said  herein advocates "church hopping." Nothing could be further from the truth. Nor should it be construed as a license to leave merely because some single incident takes place, or some comment is made which ruffles your spiritual feathers.  Likewise, this study is not an attempt to address every aspect of the question as to whether or not it is time for you to leave a particular fellowship. For a more detailed discussion of the topic of unity see chapter 15 of our on-line book Closer Walk. It can be found at:
http://www.unlimitedglory.org/closercha15.htm 

       Rather, our focus is limited to the situation faced by a believer who has come into the revelation of the Third Feast/ Overcomer/ 42nd Generation message when the leadership and the vast majority of the members of his/her present church body have not. This discussion is also pertinent to the situation faced by a Third Feast church in regards to its relationships with the other fellowships in their area who either do not yet understand or accept this revelation. 

     Let us now begin our discussion by looking at the first of our situations.  

How do we relate to those ministries which:

#1 Place so much emphasis upon their particular traditions as to give them a status equal to or even greater than the Bible. The net effect of which is to nullify Scripture when said Scripture contradicts their tradition.   

  Here are some Scriptures which show us that Jesus and His disciples faced a similar issue. 

John 11:47 (WEB) The chief priests therefore and the Pharisees gathered a council, and said, "What are we doing? For this man does many signs.  
          48 - If we leave him alone like this, everyone will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation."  

Matt. 15:6 (WEB) … You have made the commandment of God void because of your tradition  

Mk. 7:6 He answered them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, 'This people honors me with their lips, But their heart is far from me.
    7 - But in vain do they worship me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'  
    8 -"For you set aside the commandment of God, and hold tightly to the tradition of men -- the washing of pitchers and cups, and you do many other such things." 

     Consider this, in Matt. 16:16-18 Jesus tells Peter (petros Strongs # 4074) that his confession as to who Jesus was had been revealed to him from heaven. Jesus than said that it was upon "...this rock (petra - Strong's #4073) that Christ would build His church.  When you realize that the Greek word for 'rock' Jesus used in the second part of this verse is the feminine gender of the word used for Peter's name, it becomes obvious that the rock upon which Jesus was going to build His church was not Peter, but the rock of revelation knowledge. Revelation is something which is received; hence its' connection to the feminine gender.  

  Now, while we know that there will be no further additions to the written Word, it is equally clear that throughout the ages since that first Pentecost, God has added to the Church's understanding of the meaning of His Word through revelation knowledge. If some particular denomination's traditions were developed BEFORE God's latest revelation, than those traditions could well be in direct conflict with the plan God has for His end-time church.  If that organization has given its' traditions equal, or near equal status with the written Word, there is every possibility that God's revelation would be rejected because it conflicts with their tradition. 

  In light of this it is important to remember, Jesus never broke the spirit of the law. However, He did most certainly break the Pharisees' interpretation of the Law. By the time of Jesus' ministry the religious leaders had so perverted the truth of the revelation God had given to His people up to that time that even John was a little confused by what he saw Jesus doing.  

Luke7:18 (WEB) The disciples of John told him about all these things.  
      19 - John, calling to himself two of his disciples, sent them to Jesus, saying, "Are you he who comes, or should we look for another?"  

As time went by this situation got even worse. 

Matt 23: 2 (WEB) "The scribes and the Pharisees sat on Moses' seat.
        3 - All things therefore whatever they tell you to observe, observe and do, but don't do their works; for they say, and don't do.  
        4 - For they bind heavy burdens that are grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not lift a finger to help them. …  
            14 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you shut up the Kingdom of Heaven against men; for you don't enter in yourselves, neither do you allow those who are entering in to enter.  
        15 - Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel around by sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much of a son of Gehenna as yourselves. …   
        27 - Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitened tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness   

Matt.12:1 (WEB) At that time, Jesus went on the Sabbath day through the grain fields.  His disciples were hungry and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.  
      2- But the Pharisees, when they saw it, said to him, "Behold, your disciples do what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath." …
    13 - Then he told the man, "Stretch out your hand." He stretched it out; and it was restored whole, just like the other.  
    14 - But the Pharisees went out, and took counsel against him, how they might destroy him.   

Needless to say, Jesus did not join with, or seek acceptance from the overall leadership of the religious system of His day. This does not mean that He did not talk with individual members of the ruling council.  It does however mean that He made no effort to assist them in their work, nor did He seek to join them in their councils. For a detailed discussion of apostate modern churches which would fit into this part of our study, read chapter 4 of our on-line book Studies in Revelation entitled 'Babylon The Great.' It can be found at http://www.unlimitedglory.org/revcha4.htm.  

  For now allow me to simply repeat Jesus' admonition as found in Rev.18:4 "Come out of her my people."  

     So much for that situation. Let us now take a look at our second set of circumstances. 

How then do we relate to those ministries which:

#2) Do not acknowledge the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as being a work of God which is separate and distinct from one's initial salvation experience, and which represents the Holy Spirit's use of the gifts of the Spirit today as He did during the first Pentecost.   

  Again, allow me to begin with several Scriptures which point out Jesus' clear directions to us concerning the power of God which clearly comes after the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. 

Matt. 22:29 (WEB) But Jesus answered them, "You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God. 

2 Timothy 3:5 (KJV) Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.  

Acts 1:4 (Young's Literal Translation) And being assembled together with them, he commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, [saith he,] `Ye did hear of me;
    5 - because John, indeed, baptized with water, and ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit -- after not many days.' …
    8 - but ye shall receive power at the coming of the Holy Spirit upon you, and ye shall be witnesses to me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and Samaria, and unto the end of the earth.' 

Carefully note Jesus' attitude toward John the Baptizer in the following verses. 

Lk. 7:28 "For I tell you, among those who are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptizer, yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he." 

Matt.12:20 He won't break a bruised reed, He won't quench a smoking flax, … 

Lk. 7:24 When John's messengers had departed, he began to tell the multitudes about  John, "What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind?… 

    While acknowledging that John was the greatest Old Testament prophet who had ever lived, Jesus clearly stated that the least in the kingdom from that time on was greater than John. Notice also that like the bruised reed he would not break, or the smoking flax plant he would not quench, Jesus neither helped nor hindered John's ministry. And most enlightening of all is the fact that Jesus did not rescue John from prison, but He did rescue Peter in Acts 12:1-19 and Paul in Acts 16:16-34. I believe that John represented the end of one move of God, and since John was either unable or unwilling to accept the new move of God, Jesus did not step in to rescue him. 

   When a spirit filled child of the Most High God who is seeking to humbly walk in the fullness of the revelation which God is giving to His end-time church actively associates himself with a fellowship which does not accept the Baptism of the Holy Spirit are they not in effect compromising their belief? By maintaining their membership there they are saying that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is not an important doctrine. By their very presence they are saying that Paul's admonition to not quench the Holy Spirit found in I Thes.5:19 is of no importance. When such a church sends out mission teams they are in effect saying "Jesus' admonition not to leave Jerusalem until you have received power from on high doesn't apply to us, we will go anyway!"  

    By definition the deacons and elders of such churches are not Spirit filled. Therefore, they do not even meet the first criteria for holding such an office as set down in Acts 6:3. By actively supporting this type of church, are not the Spirit filled believers who call this their home church proclaiming "This is the way to go - This is what Jesus wants - This is the fullness of the Gospel - The way to overcome in all areas is taught here." How does this square with the neutral position that Jesus took towards John?

     Let us not turn our attention to the third situation under discussion. 

How then do we relate to those ministries which:

#3 Do not understand or acknowledge that God is continuing to reveal His will through a greater understanding of His Word. That there are certain things which can only be accomplished by a group of believers who are totally and completely sold out to God in every aspect of their lives - spirit, soul & body. That just as God could only use a small portion of Gideon's original army and only allow the priests who were sons of Zadok to enter into His presence, so also is God going to raise up a group of believers today who will refuse to mix God's ways with man's ways when it comes to ministering first of all to Him, and then the love of God to a dying and hurting world.  

Ezekiel 44:15 (WEB) But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, who kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister to me; and they shall stand before me to offer to me the fat and the blood, says the Lord Yahweh:
      16 - they shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister to me, and they shall keep my charge. …  
      23 - They shall teach my people the difference between the holy and the common, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean  
      24 - In a controversy they shall stand to judge; 

Judges 7:2-16 Yahweh said to Gideon, The people who are with you are too many for Me to give the Midianites into their hand, lest Israel vaunt themselves against me, saying, My own hand has saved me. 

  If the sons of Zadok had been content to remain in the outer court they would not know what the Most High was calling them into in the Holy of Holies. Nor would they have learned what they needed to know in order to be able to minister life to those who remained in the outer court.  

  Listen carefully to what I am about to say. The way you minister in the outer court will not work in the Holy of Holies. To attempt to minister before the Most High in ways which He has not ordained will lead to death (Lev.8:35 & 10:1-3). For those of you who say "Yes, but today we are under a different covenant", I ask you to check I Cor.11:30 and see what Paul says are the consequences of partaking in the Lord's Supper in an unworthy manner. If what happened to the Israelites in the wilderness is of no consequence to the end-time overcomers, why did God tell us in I Cor.10:11 that the things which happened to them in the wilderness were an example and a warning to those "on whom the fulfillment of the age has come?" 

  If Gideon had tried to fight this battle any way but God's way it would have been lost. He could not mix part of God's way with part of man's way and be successful. It had to be totally God's. For a detailed discussion of the end- time importance of the division of Gideon's army into 3 companies of 100 men each, please read chapter 5 of our on-line book God's Pattern entitled "The Holy of Holies." It can be found at: http://www.unlimitedglory.org/patterncha5.htm  

  Suffice it to say, that if God has called you to be part of His end-time, overcoming, 42nd generation you cannot expect to mix outer court or middle court methods with those found only in the Holy of Holies. Do not misunderstand what I am saying. This is not an elitist message! The overcomer is first of all a servant. All who are called to this level of commitment will walk in humility - ever mindful of Paul' s admonition in Ro.12:3 not to think more highly of yourself than you ought. However, they will also be ever mindful not to seek to mix the ministry of the Holy of Holies with that found elsewhere - not in the middle court - not in the outer court, and certainly not from outside the temple altogether.  

  The question now before us is really quite simple. Are there any dangers which a believer in the overcomer - Third Feast - sonship message might face if they choose to actively remain in, or seek to join a middle court or outer court church? The answer to this question is found in 2 separate places. The first one is 2 Cor.3:14.  

2 Corinthians 3:14 (WEB) But their minds were hardened, for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains because in Christ it passes away.  

  What this verse tells us is that when the law is preached, the veil which falls upon the people causes them to lose the vision of being alive and remaining at the return of the Lord. They no longer see into Holy of Holies, the curtain between the middle court and the Holy of Holies has been put back in place, even though at Jesus' death it was torn in two. 

  This verse clearly shows us that while we already only see things partially (I Cor. 13:12), those fellowships which are legalistic in their outlook are further hindered in their ability to understand the truth of the end-time 42nd generation message because of their legalism. What this tells me is that even if a third feast believer is remaining in such a church for the sole purpose of sharing the overcomer message with his/her fellow believers who have not yet heard this message, the chances of them being open to it are relatively slim because of the veil which is over that whole assembly.  

  Consider this, a study of church history will reveal that for the most part, no past move of God has ever been willing or able to accept a new move of God. Even Pastor John Robinson, the Pilgrim's pastor, noted this problem in his final sermon to them before they departed for Plymouth on July 21, 1620. What follows is a modern English version of that sermon: 

We are now soon to be separated and the Lord knows whether I should live long enough to see you again. But whether the Lord permits this or not, I want you to promise me that you will do as I have taught you only insofar as what I have taught you is from Christ. If God should reveal anything to you by any other instrument of His, you should be as willing to receive it as though I was sharing it with you. For I am confident that the Lord has more truth and light to reveal to us from His Holy Word. 

I am deeply saddened by the current conditions of the Reformed Churches who have reached a point in their doctrine whereby they will accept nothing that was not taught by their founder. As for example, the Lutherans, they could not be drawn to go beyond what Luther saw. For whatever part of God's will He had further imparted and revealed to Calvin, they would rather die than accept it. Likewise, the Calvinists are stuck where Calvin left them and this is most unfortunate, for while they were a precious shining light in their time, God had not revealed His whole will to them. Were Luther and Calvin now living, I am sure they would be as ready and willing to embrace further light as they themselves had received. 

I implore you to remember your covenant with God and each other to receive whatsoever light or truth which shall be made known to us from His written Word; I do however caution you to look carefully at whatever you are about to receive as truth and thoroughly examine and compare it and weigh it with other Scriptures of truth before you finally receive it. Keeping in mind the anti-Christian darkness that has so recently enveloped the Church I doubt that full revelation and fullness of knowledge should be made known all at once. Modern English version of Pastor John Robinson's final sermon to the Pilgrims before they left for the New World. This sermon was delivered on July 21, 1620.  Original recorded by Edward Winslow and found in Vera Hall's Christian History of the Constitution of the United States of America, p. 184 

As such, while there may be some individuals within such congregations who will be open to this message, be prepared to face rejection by the majority of those who attend. 

  However, the greatest danger of remaining in such a fellowship has nothing to do with rejection. It has to do with the strong possibility that the veil which hides the truth of this message from the congregation may also eventually cause you to lose the vision Jesus has given you of being alive and remaining upon His return. Allow me to explain. In order to get an idea of Paul's mindset before he returned to Jerusalem in order to celebrate the Feast of Pentecost with the Jews around 57AD open you Bible to Acts 19:21.  

Acts 19: 21 - (WEB) Now after these things had ended, Paul determined in the spirit, when he had passed through Macedonia and Achaia, to go to Jerusalem, saying, "After I have been there, I must also see Rome." (note: the 's' in "spirit" is not capitalized in most translations. It was not the Holy Spirit that caused Paul's desire to go to Jerusalem. It was his desire to reach Jerusalem by Pentecost (Acts 20:16). ) 

What we see here is that Paul wanted to return to Jerusalem. Whether it was his desire to simply see his fellow Jews, or the fact that he was so lonely for everything he had grown up with, we don't really know. What we do know is that Paul was warned by the Holy Spirit not to return to Jerusalem, and that once he did return he allowed himself to be brought back under the law. We read: 

Acts 21:4 (WEB) Having found disciples, we stayed there seven days. These said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem
8 - …We entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him.
9 - Now this man had four virgin daughters, who prophesied.
10 - As we stayed there some days, a certain prophet, named Agabus, came down from Judea.
11 - Coming to us, and taking Paul's belt, he bound his own feet and hands, and said, "Thus says the Holy Spirit: 'So will the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man who owns this belt, and will deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.'"
12 - When we heard these things, both we and they of that place begged him not to go up to Jerusalem.
13 - Then Paul answered, "What are you doing, weeping and breaking my heart? For I am ready not only to be bound, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus." …
18 - The day following, Paul went in with us to James; and all the elders were present.
19 - When he had greeted them, he reported one by one the things which God had worked among the Gentiles through his ministry.
20 - They, when they heard it, glorified God. They said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law.
21 - They have been informed about you, that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children neither to walk after the customs. (see Gal. 2:11-16 - that is exactly what Paul did teach to those Jews who lived among the Gentiles!!see also Ro.2: 29)        
22 - What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come.
23 - Therefore do what we tell you. We have four men who have a vow on them. (see Num. 6:13–20)
24 - Take them, and purify yourself with them, and pay their expenses for them, that they may shave their heads. Then all will know that there is no truth in the things that they have been informed about you, but that you yourself also walk keeping the law….
26 - Then Paul took the men, and the next day, purified himself and went with them into the temple, declaring the fulfillment of the days of purification, until the offering was offered for every one of them.
27 - When the seven days were almost completed, the Jews from Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the multitude and laid hands on him … 

  Here then is the danger. When Paul went back under the law he lost the vision of being alive and remaining at Jesus' death. From this point on, every book he wrote in the New Testament talks about dying and going to heaven as opposed to being alive and remaining in order to greet the Lord upon His return. ie. when the law is preached, physical death results. 

Rom. 7:9 (WEB) For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died  

  Return for a moment to Gal. 2:11-14 & 5:12 wherein Paul and Peter had a serious dispute regarding the place that the law and its regulations have in the NT church. Peter very clearly attempted to mix the old law with grace. Although it is understandable why he did, such a mixture brings death. A careful search of church history reveals that in fact it has been Peter's mixture of law and grace which has passed down to the Protestant church through the Catholic church. And it is still with us today. However, the overcoming 42nd generation church will not be led by a mixture of law and grace, but by the Spirit (see Col..2:20-21) Therefore, an overcomer who submits him/herself to these rules is in fact running the same risk that Paul did in Acts 21:24. Like Paul, such submission could well cause you to lose the vision/ hope of Ro.9:23 which is the redemption of the physical body, our adoption as sons without first seeing physical death. (For a detailed discussion of the Law vs.Grace issue, please see: http://www.unlimitedglory.org/lastcha8.htm ) 

  Remember, God will still use you even after you have settled for less than the fullness of what He has for you (Ez. 44:10-14), but you will suffer a loss. (see also Nu.32 wherein several tribes settled on the East side of the Jordan. They almost made it into the promised land but settled for less than all God had. As a result they were the first to go into captivity when the Babylonians attacked!!) In the case of Paul, it was not God's time for the teenage/teknon Church to walk in the fullness of the revelation of the overcomer. That was to be reserved for the end-time mature/huios Church. Hence, Paul had to lose the vision.  

  This explains why Acts 20:22 says - "Now, behold, I go bound by the Spirit to Jerusalem, not knowing what will happen to me there; …" Even though we saw in Acts 19:21 that it was Paul's idea to go to Jerusalem, he was compelled to by the Holy Spirit, perhaps just as Jesus was led into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit (Matt.4:1). ie. It was necessary for Paul to go back under the law because it wasn't yet time for the fulfillment of God's plan. However, those in the final generation who allow themselves to be brought back under the old system which still preaches the law likewise stand the chance of loosing the vision of being an overcomer. Only for members of that generation it would be a tragic loss, for they are the very ones whom the Lord has called to put death under their feet.  

  I Pe. 2:9 calls us a royal priesthood - a chosen generation. We have an assignment. Mordecai's admonition to Queen Esther rings even more true today than it did some 2,400 years ago: "For if you remain completely silent at this time, relief and deliverance will arise … from another place, … Yet who knows whether you have come to the kingdom for such a time as this?"